Relic Rules Clarification

So, there's been a fair amount of discussion behind the scenes about relics, so I thought I'd get the conversation going here to codify it. As stated before, there aren't rules in the book for buying/paying for relics with xp, and I'd like some limiting factor other than just not giving them out.

So, as it stands, here's the way that relics work. You pay for each separate aspect of a relic as its own thing. 5 xp gets you the first dot, then 3 times current as you advance. If it is a special power, it is merely 3 times the level of power you're buying.

Here's an example: Say I want to create a pistol that has +3 Accuracy, +2 Damage, never runs out of bullets, and can mimic the level 5 War Boon Mortal Stroke to deal aggravated damage. This would cost 14 (5+3+6) for the +3 Accuracy, 8(5+3) for the +2 Damage, 5 for the ability to never run out of bullets, and 35 (5+3+6+9+12) to mimic the War Boon. So, all together, and one assumes these would be bought over time, obviously, the gun would cost 62 experience points.

On a notation issue, I'd say make a note somewhere of all the power and their levels, but, as a short hand on the front of the character sheet, I would rate the Relic as its highest power, plus one if has any other abilities, to a maximum of 5 for now.

We might need to work out something for Followers and Creature later, but I think they should be more expensive.

In any events, thoughts, questions, invectives? Please, comment and lets get this figured out.

I just stared a really long answer, but before it makes any sense - the rules you've listed above, are hey the house rules already in play? The make relics a lot more expensive than they are in the book, where the most a relic will ever cost you is:

Level one: 5
Level 2: 6
Level 3: 9
Level 4: 12
Level 5: 15
---------------
Total: 47

In the system as written, every dot pays for one new special power, either:
1: Access to a boon (which we're not using)
2: +1 of some trait to a normal item, ie. +1 accuracy beyond what a normal pistol of its type has, OR +1 damage, OR +1 speed, OR +1 defense beyond what a standard armour type gives you, etc. If you want to add +2 to the pistol, then it would be 2 levels of boon
3: A Special Power, reflecting the level of the relic, at GM's discretion. So essentially, if I have a level 5 relic with 5 special powers of varying level of usefulness, with 5 being pretty damned useful.

The one that is weirdest to us is the last - because we're making boon inherent in the objects *only in this case*. Personally, if we are going to take boons at the regular cost for our characters, and have others associated with relics, I think we ought to work it like this:

Level of boon = equivalent dot of relic. So if you want a relic that gives you access to one level 5 boon, you need to buy a level 5 relic, and can then give it 4 other lesser/different powers. If you want a level 3 boon, you need to have 3 points in relic. You could have a relic that gives you 5 different boons: one lvl 1, one lvl 2, one lvl 3, etc. If you want two level 3 boons, unfortunately, you are going to have to buy the second at the higher relic cost 9so, as a lvl 4 relic). I am sure there is a better way of explaining this, so tell me if it isn't clear.

What this does for Josh's gun example is this:

Start with a normal pistol - say, a glock:
Accuracy 1, damage 3l, range 20, clip 15, speed 4

So, you want it to have an accuracy of 3, that is going to cost you *two* levels of relic - one for each +1. The good news is that your damage is higher, because Josh makes wussy guns Never running out of bullets would be a Special Power, so another *one* level of relic (at GM's discretion). And the level *5* War Boon would push it up to a level 5 relic. So this means you can actually give it one more trait to fill in that gap from level 4. So, lets give it a damage of +1 (4L total).

So now, you have paid 47 experience points, and you have a glock- equivalent weapn that does:
Accuracy 3, damage 4l, range 20, clip Unlimited, speed 4, and you can use the lvl 5 War Boon *only with this weapon*.

Actually, the rules in the book don't give you a special power per dot. If a Relic mimics a Boon, its rating is equal to the Boon. If it mimics multiple Boons, it would be the sum total of all boons, meaning you could only have five levels of Boons total (i.e. a level 4 and a level 1; a level 3 and a level twol etc.).

What this means is that the regular rules work the way you're saying, except they don't allow you extra abilities. A Relic that lets you use a one level five Boon is already a level five Relic, but that's all the power it will ever have. By the rules, as written, you can't add any more than that.

I get what you're saying, Heather, with your Boon examples, but I think that may be making Relics too powerful. Maybe that's just me.

As to the gun example, I meant it had +3 Accuracy and +2 Damage beyond whatever the base weapon has.

And, yes, it does make Relics more expensive, but you get more mileage out of them. For instance, the gun example we've been using could never be made by the book's system. It could have the +3 and +2, or the level five Boon, but not all. Because the core rules don't allow a Relic with a rating higher than five, and all aspects count against that total. I'm trying to get us to consolidate on Relics, rather than have an arsenal of more minor ones.

If we wanted to really reduce the cost, We could say, if increasing an aspect, you just pay the difference. So, say, from 3 to 5 would just be six, rather than 21. The aspected creation, to me, keeps things from getting too out of hand, but are also not prohibitively expensive. And, not to be a tool, the ability to buy Relics with xp in the first place is much more flexible than the core ruleset. If we went by that, barring GM fiat, you only get Relics at char gen, and at the Visitations for Demigod and God. That seemed to limited, and I like the idea of our items growing in power as we do.

Maybe I'm not explaining it well. I mean, I get what you're saying, I'm just trying to let us have Boons which are broader in scope. And also, perhaps, a little more powerful, though they'll obviously cost for it. Let me know what ya'll think.

Josh wrote:Actually, the rules in the book don't give you a special power per dot. If a Relic mimics a Boon, its rating is equal to the Boon. If it mimics multiple Boons, it would be the sum total of all boons, meaning you could only have five levels of Boons total (i.e. a level 4 and a level 1; a level 3 and a level twol etc.).

This is not true! The way it is written, relics give you access to a *purview* per dot, which in the standard rules 'unlocks' that purview for the character so that they can buy powers from it. It also expressly says that you can buy 'special unique powers' for a cost - look at some of the relic examples. It doesn't actually have *any* rules for giving boons to the relics themselves because that's not how the system is supposed to work. It does say you can tailor the boons to operate within a more appropriate idiom, however.

We have completely changed the nature of what relics are supposed to do, and it 8really* changed the dynamics, as well as the balance, of the game. With that in mind, I don't see why we need to keep the 'can only be level 5' cap, and cap it instead by power level very generally - level 5 for scions, 10 for demi-gods, and 15 (or, you know, not at all) for gods.

now that i am more awake, my only real objection to the way you have the 'aspect' system set up is that it does make *boons* too expensive - normally you only need to buy boons for Special Purviews incrementally, and i don't see why that can't be also true in terms of relics. Because otherwise, there is very little point to attaching a boon to a relic *unless* it is a higher rating than your legend. Right now, attaching a lvl 3 boon to a relic would cost 14 exp, as opposed to 15 just to learn a single 3rd level all-purpose boon that you can use at any time in any condition, relics or no. it gets worse at lvl 4, where it costs 20 just to buy a level 4 boon, or 23 to attach it to a relic.